[J3] Concluding J3 meeting 223

[Bill Long]

> On Mar 3, 2021, at 3:01 PM, Robert Corbett via J3 <j3 at mailman.j3-fortran.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> The two week rule was in effect when I joined
> the committee (May 2009).  The way it worked
> at that time was that papers submitted before
> the deadline were given priority over papers
> submitted after the deadline.  If a paper
> arrived after the deadline, members could ask
> that consideration be deferred until the
> next meeting.  IIRC, one member could not
> stop a paper from being considered, but two
> could.  The committee was half the size it
> currently is, so perhaps more objections
> would be needed now.
> 
> The rule worked after a fashion, but it had
> the effect of slowing work on the standard.
> In compensation, we had four meetings a year
> instead of three.
> 
> The number of meetings each year was reduced
> because of the cost to the members.

And also partly because some members disliked a meeting in Las Vegas in August, when LV can be oppressively hot.   But, I agree that cost was an issue as well. (Although compared to other corporate travel of a full week, the trips to Las Vegas were fairly cheap. WG5 meetings is far-away places are a different story, or course.)  Also, we had become more efficient when the handling of papers moved to being electronic instead of using physical paper.


>  My
> employer at the time was happy to have travel
> expenses reduced by the cost of one meeting
> a year.  My employer was very happy that I
> did not attend most of the international
> meetings.

Employers are even more happy with no travel at all (these days).  However, I think the in-person meetings were more productive, at least partly because you were more obviously away from your “day job”. And with everyone in the same location, the time zone issues didn’t exist, except for those who came an extra day early to adjust for jet-lag. 

Cheers,
Bill


> 
> Robert Corbett
> On Wednesday, March 3, 2021, 9:20:30 AM PST, Milan Curcic via J3 <j3 at mailman.j3-fortran.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Brian & J3,
> 
> Thank you and everybody else for an insightful meeting. I learned a lot.
> 
> As a new member, I'll share a few observations from the meeting. What stood out to me was:
> 
> 1. How very last-minute most of the papers were submitted;
> 2. How fast things were moving during the meeting (e.g. defining straw vote options).
> 
> For many small and simple papers, it works well. But for larger ones like the enumeration papers, it was too much for me to take in and think about in depth. When it came to a straw vote, it was difficult to consider all options and their implications. Several other members expressed the same concern.
> 
> Ample lead time for initial (pre-meeting) paper uploads would help members 1) read papers; 2) understand them; 3) discuss them with their Org; and 4) develop an informed and independent opinion. It would also help the author of the paper--of course you'd want members to have enough time to appreciate and support your paper.
> 
> INCITS lists two weeks as the cut-off time. That may be overkill for small papers, and not long enough for large feature papers. Let's discuss what would be an appropriate cut-off time, and if different papers deserve different treatment.
> 
> Last, I felt uncomfortable for a few moments during the meeting when the discussion got a bit heated. Please stay patient with and respectful to others, ultimately we all want the same thing, a better Fortran.
> 
> Cheers,
> Milan
> 
> On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 11:02 PM Brian Friesen via J3 <j3 at mailman.j3-fortran.org> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> J3 meeting 223 concluded today. Thank you all for your participation.
> Thanks especially to those in the UK (Nathan, John, Anton, any
> others?) and in Japan (Malcolm) for being awake at such an uncommon
> hour. Thanks also to Lorri for leading J3 into the virtual meeting
> world as acting Chair at meeting 222, which was J3's first all-virtual
> meeting back in October 2020.
> 
> The main action item following meeting 223 is for the Project Editor
> (Malcolm) to produce a new draft of the `007` document for meeting
> 224, to be held jointly with WG5 in June 2021, which will also be a
> virtual meeting. J3 members with opinions regarding the "split week"
> format of meeting 223 are encouraged to share their thoughts on the
> WG5 mailing list.
> 
> Finally, it is incumbent upon each of us to be respectful of other
> points of view when discussing features and papers. Some topics can be
> polarizing. Nobody is expected to agree with anybody else on anything.
> But everybody is expected to give the same consideration to everyone
> else's opinions and points of view.
> 
> Thanks again.

Bill Long                                                                       longb at hpe.com
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