[J3] [EXTERNAL] (SC22WG5.6222) Fwd: [SC22] ISO Gender Action Plan Survey

Fri Jun 5 16:05:13 EDT 2020

Hi everyone,

It is important for this community to discuss and address our
principles and values. The discussion itself is not the problem; the
tone of some remarks, however, has been problematic and has offended
some individuals. I hesitate to say it, but for that reason, at this
point it would be best to end the discussion on the mailing list.

There have been a number of allegations of code of conduct violations.
The ISO code of conduct asks us to try and work out disagreements and
issues through frank discussion when possible. However, if that is
unsuccessful or impossible, then members may request that the national
bodies of the members involved intervene. The US national body,
INCITS, has received requests for such intervention. The INCITS Vice
President and Executive Board is looking into this matter and will be
contacting the individuals involved in the near future (i.e. next
week).

Because this has been escalated to the next level, I would suggest
that we cease this discussion until the alleged conduct violations
have been investigated and corrected.

On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 11:28 AM Ondřej Čertík via J3
<j3 at mailman.j3-fortran.org> wrote:
>
> Hi everybody,
>
> Please, let's stop having these conversations over email in a public forum.
>
> Email is the absolute worst medium to have these conversations, and with every email there are more accusations and it increases tensions and it is getting out of hands. Trust me, I've been guilty of this myself in the past.
>
> Here is my proposal how to solve it: let's have a video call, where we discuss these issues. I know all of you in person, you are all good people, and I *know* we can have a frank discussion about these issues. Then, after we can either agree, or agree to disagree, we can write a summary here if needed.
>
> I will now reach to each of you privately and invite you to a call.
>
> Ondrej
>
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020, at 9:18 AM, Brad Richardson via J3 wrote:
> > I can't believe I would have to write this, but at this point it's
> > clear I probably should.
> >
> > What would make any of you feel compelled to complain publicly about
> > something so small? How long did it take you to read that email? How
> > long would it have taken for you to take the survey? For me it took
> > less than five minutes. It's taken me much longer than that just to
> > read through these email threads. I'm sure it's taken you even longer
> > to write them.
> >
> > So what are you worried about? That selection of positions on the
> > committee might no longer be based solely on merit? They already
> > aren't. You have to be a member of an organization willing to pay for
> > your participation. That's not merit. And, that discounts the fact that
> > having a diverse group has value in itself. If we want Fortran to
> > continue to grow as a language and attract new users, we need to
> > include as many perspectives as possible. There are studies showing
> > that diverse groups are able to innovate more, better consider the
> > impacts they have, and grow their audiences more effectively. If we
> > want Fortran to continue to be relevant into the future (and I really
> > hope we do), it can't be developed solely by a room full of stodgy old
> > white men. We need more perspectives.
> >
> > Are you worried you might feel uncomfortable in a room full of people
> > who aren't all just like you? Imagine how the people we're trying to
> > reach out to feel. The slightest hint of an effort to try and be more
> > inclusive causes a public uproar from the current members? How many
> > people have we now run off because of this? We can't even answer that
> > question any more because you ran them off. I have worried about
> > whether I would be welcomed as a new comer because I didn't have the
> > entire standard memorized. And that hasn't been unfounded because I
> > tried to add my thoughts to a conversation and was sternly corrected
> > when a statement I made had a subtle difference from the actual
> > language in the standard. I'm lucky not to have other reasons to have
> > felt unwelcome, and to be confident enough to persist through that. I
> > can't imagine how others must feel.
> >
> > Are you worried the committee might become political? There are reasons
> > to try and be more inclusive that aren't about politics. This isn't
> > about politics. This is about practicality and the benefits of
> > diversity. You made it about politics by complaining publicly.
> >
> > I truly hope the damage done over the last few days isn't irreparable.
> > This committee needs to take efforts to be more welcoming and
> > inclusive. I hope we can still be successful in that.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> > Brad Richardson
> > Making Everything Functional
> >
> > Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
> >
> > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> >  On Thursday, June 4, 2020 11:07 PM, Gary Klimowicz via J3
> > <j3 at mailman.j3-fortran.org> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >> On Jun 2, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Bryce Adelstein Lelbach aka wash via J3 <j3 at mailman.j3-fortran.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> This is absurdly irrelevant politics.
> > >>
> > >> When we are a small part of something big, it can be difficult to
> > >> understand the wider context. Please allow me to provide some
> > >> perspective.
> > >>
> > >> ...
> > >>
> > >> Our most valuable asset is our member organizations and their networks
> > >> of technical experts. The success of ISO standards hinges upon the
> > >> participation of a diverse stakeholders representative of the entire
> > >> global community. We are all responsible for identifying and fixing
> > >> representation gaps.
> > >>
> > >> ISO standards codify processes and technologies vital to human life,
> > >> such as food chain management (ISO 22000, [4]), and water
> > >> management/sanitation (ISO 24518, [5]). These standards impact all
> > >> people, and often disproportionately affect women in developing
> > >> countries. If some types of people are underrepresented in standards
> > >> development, how can we have confidence that those standards will
> > >> work?
> > >
> > > This. And what Damian and Brian said. And what Steve said. And the other things Bryce said.
> > >
> > > We have a habit of saying things in J3 in a way that is easily read as offensive, hurtful, or dismissive. We cannot fully understand the consequences of how we say things.
> > >
> > > So we kind of need to cut it out. Myself included.
> > >
> > > And I took the survey. Data matters. (And while I can't guarantee that the survey will be valid and valuable if I participate, I can guarantee that it won't be if I don't.)
> > >
> > > Gary
> >

-- 
Bryce Adelstein Lelbach aka wash
US Programming Language Standards (PL22) Chair
ISO C++ Library Evolution Chair
CppCon and C++Now Program Chair
CUDA Core C++ Libraries (Thrust, CUB, libcu++) Lead @ NVIDIA
--