[J3] [EXTERNAL] (SC22WG5.6222) Fwd: [SC22] ISO Gender Action Plan Survey

[Bill Long]

Hi Dominik,

Thanks for your comments.  The concept of being “turned down” does not really apply in this case.  Apart from those who are pseudo-self-employed (Steve, Bob, Damian - hmm, all men) the committee members are selected by their employers, who are the actual “members”.  In my experience, no one (without regard for gender) that was selected by an employer to represent them on the committee has ever been “turned down”.  Sandia’s principal representative is a woman, and Intel has two women (the principal and one of Intel’s alternates) [perhaps the invisible hand of Steve at work?].  I know from personal experience that convincing someone to be a rep or alternate is tough.  Our compiler group has a really excellent woman developer who I tried to get to be an alternate some time ago.  But she dislikes travel and did not want the appointment.  She was the only woman candidate available, apart from managers who also don’t what the job.   Sorry Damian, but the pipeline DOES matter.   Perhaps the more aggressive diversity initiatives at corporations and labs will result in more wiling candidates down the road. I believe that will eventually happen, but it will take a while before employers interested in Fortran get to that point. 

Cheers,
Bill



> On Jun 3, 2020, at 5:06 PM, Dominik Gronkiewicz via J3 <j3 at mailman.j3-fortran.org> wrote:
> 
> While I am not a member any of these bodies and will not comment on what action is the best to take, I just wanted to comment that calling "diversity plans" politics is not wrong. Whether it is irrelevant or good politics -- that is a different issue. My personal understanding of "equality" is that turning down someone's chance because of their gender is wrong, regardless if they are man or a woman. If it is okay to reject a man's job application just because of their gender -- that is definitely *not* equality, that is ideology-driven action and should be called such. Whether this action is justified, fair, and will bring good results -- as we see above, different people have different opinions. The reason I throw my two cents is that too often terms such as "systemic oppression" are used as facts to justify actions, which of course is a mistake, since it is only a term within a particular ideology (and not the only available explanation of our reality). In my painful experience, the discussion concentrating on the facts is the best solution (and a few people did that in the conversation), while demanding to silence others who are not in line with "the only right" thinking is the best and most clear indicator of ideological drive. 
> 
> Best regards,
> Dominik
> 
> śr., 3 cze 2020 o 16:53 Damian Rouson via J3 <j3 at mailman.j3-fortran.org> napisał(a):
> I am grateful to those who expressed support for the survey, its aims, and my related comments.  I am especially thankful for the leadership of Steve and Bryce.  When leaders articulate support for a diverse and inclusive future, it creates the space for that future to happen.
> 
> The following podcast episode from 2014 provides some fascinating data, showing that the percentage of women in computer science roughly tracked the rising percentages of women in medical school, law school, and the physical sciences up to around 1984, after which point the percentage of women in computer science fell while their percentages in the other fields continued to rise, approaching parity with men:
> 
> NPR Planet Money: When Women Stopped Coding
> 
> I realize most of us are not computer scientists, but I suspect these trends are relevant. The data make clear that these percentages are not constants of nature and can change significantly over time.  Let's hope the U.N. and ISO efforts help to turn the slope positive again.
> 
> Damian
> 
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 6:13 PM Bryce Adelstein Lelbach aka wash via J3 <j3 at mailman.j3-fortran.org> wrote:
> I also want to make this clear: comments like this are not acceptable.
> 
> Diversity and inclusiveness is important for SC22/PL22 and all of their subgroups, including WG5/PL22.3. We have serious and systemic diversity problems and we must proactively work to ensure that our standardization communities are welcoming environments for everyone.
> 
> --
> Bryce Adelstein Lelbach aka wash
> US Programming Language Standards (PL22) Chair
> ISO C++ Library Evolution Chair
> CppCon and C++Now Program Chair
> CUDA Core C++ Libraries (Thrust, CUB, libcu++) Lead @ NVIDIA
> --
> 
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020, 12:10 Van Snyder via J3 <j3 at mailman.j3-fortran.org> wrote:
> This is absurdly irrelevant politics. Let's just do our jobs without
> getting fanatical about politics.
> 
> On Tue, 2020-06-02 at 13:43 -0400, Steve Lionel via J3 wrote:
> > Dear ISO expert,
> > 
> > 
> > In September 2019, the ISO Council approved the ISO Gender Action
> > Plan 
> > 2019-2021. Priority 1 of this Action Plan is the collection of
> > gender 
> > data on ISO members’ top management, technical committees, experts
> > and 
> > governance bodies representatives. The goal is to understand the
> > current 
> > gender balance as well as the participation of the next generation
> > in 
> > ISO’s activities and to use this as the baseline for the effective 
> > monitoring of progress towards long-term objectives.
> > 
> > Within this context, I am pleased to share the ISO Central
> > Secretariat 
> > Gender Action Plan - Expert survey. Completing the survey takes less 
> > than 2 minutes.
> > Please complete the survey 
> > https://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/Expert_survey/
> > I thank you in advance for sharing this survey with the experts of
> > your 
> > TC, SC, PC and/or WG. The survey will be open until 1 September 2020.
> > 
> > Responses to this survey are anonymous. No contact details are 
> > collected, and the respondents’ IP address is discarded as soon as
> > the 
> > respondent visits the survey. ISO is committed to protecting the
> > privacy 
> > of its members and experts and that is why we selected SmartSurvey,
> > a 
> > provider which assures GDPR compliance (see the SmartSurvey privacy 
> > policy: www.smartsurvey.co.uk/privacy-policy)
> > 
> > Participating in the survey is voluntary. However, the more data we 
> > collect the better we will be able to inform future initiatives to 
> > enhance the gender representation in standardization work which will 
> > lead to improved performance and better results.
> > 
> > Once compiled, the results of the survey will be shared with ISO
> > members.”.
> > 
> > I thank you in advance for your contribution to this important
> > matter.
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > 
> > sergio mujica secretary-general | ISO Central Secretariat | Phone:
> > +41 
> > 22 749 01 11
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 

Bill Long                                                                       longb at cray.com
Principal Engineer, Fortran Technical Support &   voice:  651-605-9024
Bioinformatics Software Development                      fax:  651-605-9143
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