[J3] posts

Brad Richardson everythingfunctional at protonmail.com
Wed Jan 22 14:32:44 EST 2020

To point 1. Why would consensus be needed for feedback? Wouldn't it be sufficient to just recap discussions had as feedback? And any other feedback would be given offline by either members of the committee individually or members of the community?

I would think that if the committee is actively engaged with the community that nearly all feedback from committee members would happen prior to the meeting anyways, and any time spent on proposals at the meetings would mostly be a formality and a chance to get the proposal on record.

I would hope that Certik's efforts with the Github repository are a significant step towards making the above a feasible workflow.

On Wed, 2020-01-22 at 10:16 -0700, Keith Bierman via J3 wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 9:17 AM Vipul Parekh via J3 <j3 at mailman.j3-fortran.org> wrote:
> ...quoting OO above My own opinion is also that we absolutely have to give some feedback for every proposal.
>> Or is the view here that J3 is unable and/or unwilling to multitask
>> even a little?
> I can't comment on the committee's current workings or thinking. But recalling similar discussions and some unfortunate outcomes from the past ....
> - Do not underestimate how hard it is to get consensus on WHY. Feedback to a proposal other than "thanks for your input" can take an almost unbounded amount of time. People can agree it would be nice, disagree as to why it is nice, how it should be implemented, how fast it should be implemented, whether it can be implemented. Having opened up the box of snakes, it takes a long time to put them back. Also, any entrenched hard feelings dug up by such discussions can impede other work, where painful compromises have already been made, but not completed.
> - What the committee *has* to do is defined by ANSI (and/or ISO depending on context). What the committee should do may be very different. If a debate about *has* to do is required, quote chapter and verse from the relevant organizational documents.
> The pain, suffering, and delays of F9x should never be repeated. A focus on consensus positions on public comment was certainly not the root of all problems ... but it certainly was seriously unhelpful.
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