[J3] (SC22WG5.6177) October meeting visa invitation letter
Nathan.Sircombe at arm.com
Tue Apr 28 16:32:00 EDT 2020
> That was Nathan's term - I took it as meaning getting away from doing the development only at J3 meetings, which is what I have hopes your Github can help with, as I discuss in my latest blog post....
Yes, that is partly what I was getting at, and I see that it's more relevant to J3 work specifically.
But I was also thinking of the simple problem of running a productive meeting were attendees will be spread over a wide range of time zones - I think this is a more acute problem for a joint J3/WG5 meeting than it is for J3 alone. This means that, while we may be able to 'meet' for a small window each day, the natural drum-beat of the meeting simple won't be there. Collaborating will need to be much more fluid, discussion on papers may not be possible in real time.
imagine something much closer to collaborating on an OS project, where comments and reviews I post during my working day, possibly in the middle of the night for some committee members, are there ready and waiting when they start for work.
That is, of course, the approach that Ondrej's GitHub project is taking, and I too think it's very promising - a great place to start.
When it comes to those corridor / water-cooler / pub discussions. There's no perfect substitute for the real thing. But we've been doing our day jobs from home now for weeks. I'm sure we've all found ways to keep some of that incidental, partially social, interaction alive. For me Slack has been indispensable for this (and we already have j3-fortran.slack.com).
On 28/04/2020, 18:23, "J3 on behalf of Steve Lionel via J3" <j3-bounces at mailman.j3-fortran.org on behalf of j3 at mailman.j3-fortran.org> wrote:
On 4/28/2020 12:31 PM, Ondřej Čertík via J3 wrote:
> Thanks for this initiative. Having a projector and a telecon capability would be extremely beneficial.
I'm not convinced a projector is needed, with presentation sharing.
Often a projector is available at WG5 venues - as I wrote earlier I'm
not aware that the Las Vegas Residence Inn (J3 venue) has one we can
use, but maybe it does (for a fee, I am sure.) What I usually see, when
local attendees are watching a projection and remote attendees are
watching what is shared, is that the presenter talks to the room and
not to the whole audience, and sometimes points to things on the
projection screen leaving the remote viewers clueless. I suppose video
can help with that, but that adds complexity.
Telecon capability, though, is going to be required. The question is who
will pay for it, something I am working on. J3 can buy equipment with
funds from meeting fees, but it would be nice if INCITS or even ISO can
provide some funding. There's also a logistical issue with the way J3
operates in subgroups that tend to meet together at odd times and then
the members go off by themselves to work on papers. That needs a
rethink, and I'd love to see some concrete suggestions in this area.
Speaking of which...
> Thanks also for the willingness to reevaluate how J3 works. I agree that's needed. If you wouldn't mind, can you please elaborate more what you mean by "time-shifted engagement"? Let's discuss the details.
That was Nathan's term - I took it as meaning getting away from doing
the development only at J3 meetings, which is what I have hopes your
Github can help with, as I discuss in my latest blog post. It will
require a willingness across J3 to change the way we work, and needs to
be established collectively. Really this is a J3 thing and not WG5,
unless WG5 wants to "take back" technical development of the standard
from J3, in which case we have additional issues to deal with, and I
don't think that would be productive.
There is a great deal to be said, however, for the personal interactions
and exchanges of ideas that happen when everyone is together in the same
room,and chatting 1-1 in corridors, etc. Physical meetings are more
efficient and encourage attendees to devote most of their attention to
the standard work at hand. That simply doesn't happen with virtual
meetings. But members who want to do the work, even though they're
unable to attend in person, should still be able to participate.
In my mind, the biggest step we can take is to get work-list papers
written between meetings, with tuning by small teams of interested
parties, so that when we do meet in person we can get things done
faster. We don't need any equipment to do that, just a shift of mindset
and a willingness to siphon off some time from "the day job" to make it
happen. (I understand, though, that some members simply may not be in a
position where they are allowed to devote resources to J3 between
meetings.) I'll note that often J3 votes to change or choose among
approaches with straw votes, so we can't simply present papers as a
"take it or leave it". Again, needs some thought and discussion.
P.S. Note that I am following up to the WG5 list where this discussion
started. J3 subscribers (the WG5 list forwards to the J3 list) need to
remember to replace the J3 list address with WG5 when following up.
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