(j3.2006) Fwd: Fwd: Call for Comments - On Draft Proposed INCITS Membership Agreement - Comments Due by Friday, September 6, 2013

Fri Aug 16 08:44:15 EDT 2013

On 8/15/13 10:16 PM, Van Snyder wrote:
> As far as I can tell, there are no changes from the previous version.
>
> There is a good chance that members' organizations will say "Hell No!"
> if the "We can change the agreement without your consent or knowledge"
> clause remains.

I did send in a comment that notification of any changes needs to be 
sent to our lawyers (or anyone the member designates) in addition to the 
member.  I think the "consent" part is covered by the "if you don't like 
it, then quit" option.  However, the "knowledge" part is critical.

[I sent the comment directly to Lynn because that is what the email send 
directly to me from her said to do.]

>
> As Bill has remarked, the copyright clauses might also be non-starters
> for many members' organizations.

It strongly depends on what is covered.  If the copyright covers only 
the final standard we submit to ANSI, and perhaps the meeting/TAG 
minutes and agendas, then I don't see a big problem.  Particularly since 
our final product is a document that goes to ISO and is copyrighted by 
ISO, not ANSI.

However, as Van explains below, requiring every meeting paper go through 
copyright and patent review at the member's legal department would 
paralyze the operation of the committee.   We very much need 
clarification (in the correct direction, hopefully) of this issue before 
anyone will sign.

If the document wording is not favorably clarified, I think that 
alternatives would need to be considered, such as reforming PL22.3 as an 
"implementation" subset of WG5.   I think this would be unfortunate. 
Part of the benefit of PL22.3 is the protection (supposedly) against 
patent claims that the current rules afford members. Loosing that could 
also throw cold water on the operation of the committee.

Cheers,
Bill

>
> At one meeting in 2004, I submitted fifty papers.  Up to that time, I
> had had to submit my papers to an internal document review organization
> so they could verify I wasn't violating any patent or copyright
> policies, or any ITAR laws.  Those fifty papers (along with the draft of
> the standard they were amending) were the straw that broke the camel's
> back; they said "Don't send this stuff to us again."  The new copyright
> policies might convince them they need to see stuff again.  It generally
> takes a week or so to get clearance.  It would be impossible to get
> clearance between, say, Monday night and Tuesday morning during a J3
> meeting.  If I have to get clearance on J3 papers, I don't know whether
> I can then legally write or amend a paper at a J3 meeting.  If I can't
> actually participate in meetings, my management might say "Just mail it in."
>
> Has INCITS carefully crafted this policy so as to wipe out their
> committees?  Maybe, like other language standards committees, the INCITS
> committee will disband (or move to IEEE or ECMA or ...), leaving only
> the JTC1 committee.
>
> Be careful what you wish for!  You might get Sarbanes-Oxley or
> Dodd-Frank or Obamacare.
>
> On Thu, 2013-08-15 at 19:11 -0700, Dan Nagle wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> Now INCITS wants views expressed by August 23.
>>
>>
>> I'll collect comments until the 21st (or so) and then
>> summarize and forward to INCITS.
>>
>>
>> While I take the committee's views to be generally in the negative,
>> a collective statement, with as many specifics as can be,
>> may have some effect.
>>
>>
>> If you would particularly like to have your name, or your firm's name,
>> withheld, just so indicate.
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> *From: *Dan Nagle <dannagle at verizon.net <mailto:dannagle at verizon.net>>
>>>
>>> *Subject: (j3.2006) Fwd: Call for Comments - On Draft Proposed INCITS
>>> Membership Agreement - Comments Due by Friday, September 6, 2013*
>>>
>>> *Date: *August 8, 2013 05:28:24 MDT
>>>
>>> *To: *Archive <ncits at j3-fortran.org <mailto:ncits at j3-fortran.org>>,
>>> J3 List <j3 at j3-fortran.org <mailto:j3 at j3-fortran.org>>
>>>
>>> *Reply-To: *fortran standards email list for J3
>>> <j3 at mailman.j3-fortran.org <mailto:j3 at mailman.j3-fortran.org>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>
>>>> *From: *"Barra, Lynn" <lbarra at itic.org <mailto:lbarra at itic.org>>
>>>>
>>>> *Subject: Call for Comments - On Draft Proposed INCITS Membership
>>>> Agreement - Comments Due by Friday, September 6, 2013*
>>>>
>>>> *Date: *August 7, 2013 21:08:13 MDT
>>>>
>>>> *To: *"Barra, Lynn" <lbarra at itic.org <mailto:lbarra at itic.org>>
>>>>
>>>> *Cc: *"Barra, Lynn" <lbarra at itic.org <mailto:lbarra at itic.org>>,
>>>> "Garner, Jennifer" <jgarner at itic.org <mailto:jgarner at itic.org>>,
>>>> "mbraner at apple.com <mailto:mbraner at apple.com>" <mbraner at apple.com
>>>> <mailto:mbraner at apple.com>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To INCITS Community ???
>>>> The INCITS Executive Board (EB) is proposing a Membership Agreement
>>>> which member organizations will be required to sign in 2014. The
>>>> purposes of the Agreement are to: (1) document and formalize rules
>>>> that INCITS has been following operationally for many years; (2)
>>>> clarify and update other rules; and (3) confirm that Members are
>>>> legally bound to these rules in order to bring more consistency,
>>>> transparency, and efficiency to the INCITS standards development
>>>> process and thereby provide more protection and certainty to the
>>>> INCITS stakeholders. To support this action, at their April 2013
>>>> meeting, the INCITS Executive Board (EB) established an Ad Hoc to
>>>> facilitate the development of a membership agreement.
>>>> At their July 2013 meeting, the EB discussed the proposed Membership
>>>> Agreement and agreed that all member organizations should be given
>>>> an opportunity to review and comment on the proposed Membership
>>>> Agreement prior to an approval ballot being issued.
>>>> At this time, a call for comments is being issued on the proposed
>>>> Membership Agreement, copy attached.
>>>> Please note that this email is being sent to you because you have
>>>> been identified as a primary contact for your organization to
>>>> INCITS. *We request that you forward this information to an
>>>> authorized individual or legal counsel within your organization for
>>>> review.*
>>>> Members are requested to forward any comments on the proposed
>>>> Membership Agreement to the Secretariat at lbarra at itic.org
>>>> <mailto:lbarra at itic.org> not later than *Friday, September 6,
>>>> 2013*.  All comments received will be addressed by the Ad Hoc on
>>>> Membership.
>>>> Regards-
>>>> Lynn
>>>> Lynn Barra
>>>> Director, INCITS Standards Operations
>>>> INCITS/Information Technology Industry Council
>>>> 1101 K Street NW, Suite 610, Washington DC 20005
>>>> T: 202-626-5739 | Email: lbarra at itic.org <mailto:lbarra at itic.org> |
>>>> Web: www.INCITS.org <http://www.incits.org/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cheers!
>>>
>>> Dan Nagle
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> J3 mailing list
>>> J3 at mailman.j3-fortran.org <mailto:J3 at mailman.j3-fortran.org>
>>> http://mailman.j3-fortran.org/mailman/listinfo/j3
>>
>> --
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Dan Nagle
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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-- 
Bill Long                                           longb at cray.com
Fortran Technical Support    &                 voice: 651-605-9024
Bioinformatics Software Development            fax:   651-605-9142
Cray Inc./Cray Plaza, Suite 210/380 Jackson St./St. Paul, MN 55101